How AI is Changing Graphic Design | The Curious Refuge Podcast 07

A Conversation with Julie Wieland | Episode 07

How AI is Changing Graphic Design | The Curious Refuge Podcast 07

In this podcast episode, we chat with Julie Wieland about her experience in the creative industry and how AI has impacted the world around her. We talk about everything from myspace template customization all the way to Julie's top tips for learning AI as a creative.

Julie is a very skilled graphic designer and has learned the best ways to utilize Artificial Intelligence to become more skilled and efficient at her craft. You will definitely want to check this episode out.

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How AI is Changing Graphic Design | A Conversation with Julie Wieland

Below is a transcript of episode 07 of The Curious Refuge Podcast.

The Curious Refuge Podcast 07 | How AI is Changing Graphics Design

Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast, Julie. Thank you for having me. I thought it'd be helpful just to kick things off by hearing a little bit about your background and what led you to where you are today. So, yeah. Hi, I'm Julie. I am a graphic designer. Turned or not turned, but I've always, I guess, kind of been visual artist.

But yeah, I never really left through it. And now it's A.I. being around. I dealt with a bit more into that area of my life again. So yeah, it's been a fun ride so far and I mean, yeah, but Max, being a graphic designer is like coming a ton with it, but it's pretty exciting how I kind of changed everything.

To be honest, I speak everything and nothing, but so much less so. Yeah, I think it's really interesting that you have that background as a graphic designer, but you were embracing AI pretty early, Super early, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. It's bit like I was going through your Twitter. You've you have like 5700 posts, and most of them at this point are about A.I..

my God. Don't see. That's amazing. What got you kickstarted into learning about A.I. and using the tools? Working with the agency. I work really close with Neon and Luxembourg. They were very up to speed with the whole thing, and they were like, have you seen Dolly too? Like, that's going to be crazy. And then get on Doritos.

And I was like, I guess I could do that. Like, let's go. And yeah, I think it was August 22 when I was after the waiting this on Dolly, too. And from there it was like, holy moly. It's just this is crazy. Like, just like I still feel like when people see the generations, it's not like, okay, cool.

But when you actually prompted, it's just like, Wow, how does that work? And you remember the first thing you prompted using Dolly? It was probably something stupid like dark in space or something. Like pretty, pretty sure it was that because they had like a little tiles of, Hey, try this prompt. And I think it was a darkened space.

So we did a dog as well, I remember was like October in Rochester were like prompting Renaissance paintings of chihuahuas. So yeah, I mean, yeah, it, it just makes sense if you're just adorable in any shape or form, you know? Right. Well, I was reading on your website, Juliet, you were saying that you, you really kind of begun a lot of your formidable years when it comes to creativity on MySpace and DeviantArt messing around with templates, which I'm sure that's really close to home for Subway because she definitely did a lot of MySpace page customizations.

I'm curious if you could speak to how those tools impacted you early on and if you think that they kind of helped to get you inspired to learn about the intersection of technology and art. So it definitely sparked something because I made it into my career, right? Like there was something there, like with MySpace, like I still miss it everyday.

I know it's technically still there, but I'm really it's not the same anymore. It was just like the getting to be creative on yourself. Like you have those little templates and you could change your background and your music. And I was just like, Hell, yeah, this is me. Like I'm 14, but this is me for the rest of my life.

And yeah, just getting into that HTML scissors just to tweak it a little bit more and make it even more Me Just like more emo, I guess. Yeah, that which is like pretty cool. And I mean, I did go to art school in Luxembourg, but yeah, still it was a lot of on paper stuff which was cool and, and doing lots with your hands.

But ultimately like on the computer was where I felt very, I don't know, at home, which I don't know if that's very healthy, but I guess we're here now. But yeah, it was just cool to to kind of express whatever I wanted to express back then because I love taking photos. But then you had a photo and you were like, Well, that is boring.

I guess so, yeah, we all started with the correct version of Photoshop then. So that's also how I got there. And yeah, just like learning all about it and seeing other people. I don't think YouTube tutorials were around that much. Like it really was like random people, blogs, Tumblr, maybe even, and definitely deviant art. So yeah, just seeing inspiration there and just trying it out yourself.

And I'm still like, you always have to learn yourself. You can't rely on on school, university, whatever. Like you have to just do it yourself. And that's what I did back then. And I kind of just I guess I was still at that point like and now it has become that much more interesting And like you have that new kind of tag and yeah, it just like for me, it constantly feels like I've come full circle, like I can now do again my little photos and take them to Photoshop, do a little more editing and yeah, MySpace and do the art created this place to kind of play and explore.

And it feels like these maybe these tools are doing that same thing, giving you this opportunity to kind of go back to that. Like, yeah, it's full circle and yeah, I can totally see that. I didn't have a, a version of Photoshop during that season, but I use Picasso a lot. Did use Picasso. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. my favorite tool.

But I would like message people on MySpace and ask if I can edit their profile photo for them. I don't know if that was a very good way to go about making friends, but can edit your photo. It need some help. This is the by the way. It looks great. Yeah. Maybe we can unearth all the your old MySpace profiles and we could just share with the community in the show notes for this episode.

Do those exist? my God. I deleted mine. I like. I still regretted them. I feel like I was like, you know, 20 and I'm like, This is embarrassing. I need to, like, get rid of this. Okay. But fun fact for everyone. Caleb was always a rebel. And so we grew up together. And his MySpace, you know, we had the top eight and you organize your friends based on your favorite.

This is a terrible way to go about friendships. However, Caleb had the foresight to see that That was terrible. He had our best friends like, one of our friend's moms as his first friend on MySpace. And it was always like, What is he doing? Why is this person your number one on MySpace? Which why is it I mean, it's better than having Tom there, right?

Like still. Yeah, it's like but I love how, you know, this is like a podcast about the future of technology, but now we're like sounding like old timers talking about the good old days of, like MySpace templates. What I feel like a I brings out the most nostalgic and most melancholic thing in me. I don't know why or how, but I constantly feel like I go back in time with it instead of into the future.

I don't know. It's yeah, it's really a thing that's so true. I feel like it unlocks your ability to creatively do that project or like create that image that you always dreamed of but never had the ability to pull off. So I feel like I've been doing all of those prompts, you know, whether it's some beautiful, like art directed thing or just like, what would like Fire Dinosaur is like, like, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, you left college and had a career. Have a career as a graphic designer. Can you walk us through kind of where you your career took you and then how you actually transitioned now to where you are a freelancer working with AI on graphic design projects? Yeah. So I feel like I went to very traditional kind of way.

I went to art school, then I went to university for design and there like in my intern semester, that was when I really realized like how important it is to actually work in the fields you study because I saw so many other people that have never, I don't know. And they, of course, and in university they dabbled around and that their stuff, the logos, whatever we wanted to or we had to create.

But after the internship, a lot of people actually were like, This is not for me, this is not is. And that's basically right at the end of your university years. So I guess that kind of sucks. But yeah, I always kind of knew what what I wanted and I don't know if it's still at that level, but you kind of had to get your bachelor to make a career and be successful.

And yeah, I, I mean, I did stay in Berlin and worked in startups and I absolutely loved it and it was a great time. But now, like, I never wanted to be a freelancer and eager I am now and I probably wouldn't want to trade it in that way anymore. Like it's really cool to have that network growing from all the people I learned or like recognitions and do all those years working in startups and all those people were like different kind of creatives.

They funded their own brands and everything. So that's cool to help. That's interesting to hear that you didn't want to be a freelancer. I feel like most people want to work towards, you know, designing and creating for themselves, building their own schedule. You know what? How did you then become a freelancer? The pandemic? Yeah. So it was mainly due to the opportunities that came with being at home, kind of like I definitely wanted to try it even before everything kind of turned south, but I didn't know if I really wanted to.

Like I was like going into what's it actually called, Health time working like, not full time, part time. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to see if if it works out, if I have enough people around me and making enough money to survive and it was a bit, I guess, lucky due to the pandemic that it all worked out.

And I was able to become a freelancer super quickly and I've actually never been happier because I never realized how big that how much social anxiety work actually gave me. So it is kind of crazy how I really wasn't made to work in an office with other people for 50 to 60 hours a week. And that has been kind of life changing and gave me a whole different kind of energy boost to be completely transparent and honest.

I think that's yeah, And now I couldn't see myself going back even though I never wanted it to happen. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I feel the same way. You know, we work for ourselves now and it's like, my gosh, this is amazing. Like, I love this so much more, but at the same time, having the experience of working in house I think with other people helped to kick start my career and understanding to where I can freelance a little better.

So I feel like both of those things combined really helped to create what I hope is a bit more of a well-rounded professional. Yeah, I would never change it. Like all those years, working with other people in an office is like what shaped me and made me like, yeah, kind of eager to keep going. Also, like, I feel like if I would have been a freelancer straight out of university, I would not make €100 a month because I would just be lazy and procrastinating the whole day.

And now I really have that drive and I know what I'm working for basically. So yeah. Is there a type of person that you'd say would do better in that full time capacity? I mean, I like when I work full time, like 9 to 5 or whatever, nine to a bit more than five, always. It was good, but I felt very drained versus now I work 24 seven and I don't feel drained, so I don't really get it.

But I on the other hand, it makes sense because I can still just like if I don't want to do it at like 1:00, then I will do it. I know at 9 p.m. at night because I can, but I love that I'm definitely like a night owl and I feel like I could just get the most done in the evenings.

And that's not how the world works. So it's yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's the problem, right? Like it's hard to, especially in a creative job, to always function. And now I can function on my time. I mean, at least most of the time. There's still deadlines, I guess. But yeah, it's really cool to plan around. Yeah, my own kind of time and invest as much time as I want.

And somebody else you mentioned like kind of having that social anxiety as well, which I really relate to. But then I see you are speaking at a lot of events. How is that for you? Like how are you overcoming that too, to be on stage and to speak or to have conversations on a podcast like, but that's completely different.

I'm not really like an in-person kind of person, like on podcast and everything. I'm still like in my little bubble here, like I'm not phone, so I don't feel like as, as nervous, as social, anxious. I don't know, like I used to do like a theater and I was like a bit geeky theater and musicals and everything. And I always like that was fine because I was playing a role.

And now, like, if I have to be somewhere else, I have to be like myself. And that's really hard. And I don't know, like when I'm in the comfort of my own home, it's easier and I'm very relaxed like this is fine. I can do podcasts and but life events is like really hard for me. And if if I don't have to do it, if it won't do, yeah, but you have been doing it right.

And so I'm so curious at these live events recently, especially as you chat about artificial intelligence and how it's changed you graphic design, photography, everything. What are some of those kind of main points that you share in those presentations? Like what do you try to get across to the audience to try it? Even like a lot of people don't not try because they hate AI per se, but they are afraid of it.

And that's something that I never really understand because you can't be afraid of something if you haven't tried it out. And people are always like, but I'm going to lose my job because of A.I.. I'm like, No, you can enhance your job because of it. I like of course you don't have to use it, but at least try it out one see if you understand it.

And if not, that's fine. Like you don't have to make it part of your job. Like, I never got into the whole free stuff as much as I wanted to. Like, it just didn't happen because, like, on one side I was too lazy. On the other hand, I was just like, my brain doesn't function and free D apparently, and that's fine.

But I tried it out and I sometimes liked it, but I never really wanted to have it in like as a part of my job. And I try to always kind of show people what's possible with it and not to be. Yeah, just like to Freedom is, I don't know. It's always kind of weird to hear people be like, Yeah, I'm terrified of A.I., but then I'm like, Well, let's try it out and see, like, yeah, it's, that's the main thing.

But I also I'm very I don't try to push it on people. Like I just mainly want to show what's possible. And I mean, it's still very new and I live in my bubble and I always constantly feel like we all know about A.I., right? And then I'm just talking with other graphic designers and they're like, I never heard of midnight.

Like, like, it's my journey. And yeah, okay, well, I guess we start here. Yeah, I. That's so funny. Yeah, I was reading a report recently and it was saying that a very low percentage of people use chatbots in their weekly work, and I was so surprised by that because it has so many practical applications for our team.

I can't imagine not using those tools in the day to day capacity, but I think people are just slower to adopt the than the people like us that were going in and customizing our office spaces. Yeah. So I want to get into some of the nuts and bolts and kind of the weeds here because I think that you have a lot of technical understanding and I love the fact that you've worked with a lot of clients, so you understand how to contextualize all these tools for many different projects.

So I really want to start things off, especially from this graphic design lens, and ask you what types of projects in your opinion is really helpful for utilizing artificial intelligence at this point? For everything Moodboard and really time consuming. Like, for example, the amount of wood boards I created already has been insane and how much time that takes to just browse images on hinges.

Google wherever is like so time consuming and clients don't want to pay for that. Like they don't want to pay you basically just in looking up beautiful pictures. It's just something that they don't acknowledge in a sense of how important it actually is to get a vision for your project. And I basically reduce from like two or three days of imagery searches.

I now reduce it down to maybe maybe half a day because like as creatives, we know what we want and we have the vision, but it's just always super tricky to to find those and to get like exactly what the client wants. And there's still so much Photoshop still involved because like you want, I don't know, a Chihuahua wearing a suit, but you can only find dachshunds in suits and you're like, damn, now it's ancient.

It's you've been have from an accent to your Chihuahua. And that's just like opening a door to save time and make more money. And it's not even using AI in the end result. Like you don't have to use AI in your end project, but to brief one your client, but also later on your photographers cinematographers like all those people to have like yeah such a reduce reducing of time is like crucial, especially as a freelancer.

Like time is money and that's like the main bonus I can see always like there's, I guess a few or a lot of other things, but that's like my main yeah, the main graphic design aspect, What would you say is currently that at doing or assisting with that actual logos and attraction like A.I. is kind of the intern, like I'm the art director of my AI is only like the intern.

I can push AI that much, but it doesn't come up with it itself and that's totally fine. And it shouldn't like definitely Touch a beauty does help spark some ideas, but in the end, like I still gave it that first spark and then it's just like a conversation between to, yeah, I don't know, director and an intern kind of.

Well, and I think it's really important to note that you're a very talented art director. Your work is very good and you spent many years developing that creative taste and that understanding that ability to communicate as an art director with other collaborators. And I'm curious to you, do you feel like those skills helped you to become better at prompting and utilizing A.I. tools?

Probably yeah, I would say so, yeah. I like writing. Creative briefs is like basically what the prompt is like. I always tell people treated like a creative brief because like, you have to know, who are you shooting? What's the emotion you want to grab? Like, what's your subject? What's the scene, What's the lighting like? Like what camera do we need?

What are the settings like? That's exactly what comes into the prompt. And I think it helped both ways. Like now I can kind of better tell people what I want in words because I have to use words more now than actual visuals and the other way around, like having that visual knowledge and yeah, that, that creative past is like what shapes of prongs?

So yeah, it's a give and take. And you were saying that using artificial intelligence has increased your speed in which you've been able to work on projects and get things out. Do you feel like, you know, you're saying time is money, Do you feel like you've actually made more money as a freelancer in utilizing A.I. tools versus what you were making before?

I would say so, yeah. But also my knees did change a little bit, so it's hard to say if it's just because of it, but it definitely, yeah, I mean, I don't have to spend as much time on tedious work on an on really time consuming task that need my whole effort to put into because that's the first step into making the project.

And if that goes really smoothly and fast, then the rest of the project is way easier to go ahead about. So yeah, has it been challenging to figure out what to quote folks for these projects? Like so you have a client, Do you kind of figure the project pricing based on like graphic design projects or are you kind of creating a new framework around pricing for a I projects?

I'm still figuring it out. It's super hard because, I mean, people are saving time before money themselves, but I also can't reduce my own money like too much to them. But I don't want to crowd as much as a photographer if I do generate images, but also on the other hand, they got it within a day. Instead of having a whole team having to go there, shoot it and get it retouch and it would take two weeks versus I do it in a day.

So I always try to find a good balance, but it's super hard and I still don't have it figured out 100%. Like, we'll see. It's super tricky to to find a good balance there. So if you have any questions, I'll gladly take you. Well, we've talked about this on the podcast before, but you know, generally speaking, whenever you look at Hollywood, for example, and you take a look at different artists, the more technical the artists, the more money they typically make, Right?

So, you know, an entry level VFX artist doesn't make as much as like an experienced compositor who doesn't make as much as the effects supervisor and or a technical director. Right. And so I think it's interesting because I feel like you have a lot of technical skills that are highly valuable in this moment right now. You know, because I was watching a break down that you were giving earlier and it was like, okay, I'm going into my journey and prompting for this, and then I'm taking that up, raising it, sending it over to Magnifica and I'm going into Photoshop out painting and sending it to Lightroom to do depth of field adjustments that it's it's

a that's a awesome technical workflow. I don't think the average graphic designer is has utilized each one of those tools in that sequence and can understand how that plays into the larger like storytelling context of like an advertising campaign. So it seems like the skills that you're bringing to the table are those like highly technical skills combined with your really awesome taste that that is financially valuable.

It's not just creatively valuable. It is like very much financially valuable for agencies who are looking to have quick turnaround times. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we live in a very a.S.A.P like society and as much as people always drag it that now with AI, everything is like kind of fast food, it just is what it is like.

I wish I could spend three weeks on searching the perfect image and getting it created by a photographer, by whoever. But that's just not reality. And maybe it is for some. And my God, that's amazing, but it's not for me. Yeah, it's so funny. We were giving a talk recently talking about creative mediums and how they've evolved over time.

And, you know, when photography came out, people were so upset because, you know, it takes away from the nuanced, you know, painting, you know, a realistic scene scape. And, you know, people are upset about what that was going to do to society because it was going to cheapen, you know, expression and creative expressions and stuff like that. And, you know, it's funny because in one sense, obviously, you know, photography is a beautiful art form and we're able to see all, you know, incredible expressions of creativity, like through this medium.

And in another sense, it's like, well, yeah, like I guess we did kind of progress as a society and we do kind of move on a little faster, and yet creativity is still pushed forward and stories are still told. And so it's like even, you know, whenever we start catastrophizing about like, this is just going to put out more artwork and more creativity and it's going to make things faster or whatever.

It's like, Yeah, it totally could. But then it creative humans are going to take that and put project meaning into it. And it's it's not a bad thing. It's just a new evolution in our creative expression, which I think is really cool. Yeah. And nothing went away, right? Like analog photography is still here and it's now even more expensive and it's even more like a real skill you have to learn.

And I mean, we all have a phone with a camera now, like we are all kind of we could all be technically photographer, but still you have to have that special something to make it like really creative. And that will never be taken away, not by air, not by whatever comes next. Like it's it's always going to stay and it's just going to it will make so many mediums more now appreciated and more valuable.

So, yeah, your taste and your discernment as an art director really these projects to becoming what they are. And so this is such an important skill. You can't just project, you know, it's, it's taste is everything. I try to really push it all the time. Like I'm always trying to get my way, all those little visuals in my head to really into I go into those prompts.

I want to hop into a bit of your design workflow and talk about what that looks like. But first we notice on your Twitter account, you talk a lot about this tool called Let's Eye. And so we've never messed around with this tool. I don't know if you have Caleb, but you say you use mid journey Pico Runway and then let's so what is let's say I so that's from the agency I work really close with from Luxembourg and they basically that their own version of my journey is and yeah it's just super fun to to work with with the guys on on that kind of tool and to see even more of the technical

side of it because now I mean I I'm not part of it, but I love seeing them geek about it and really push it to the absolute limits. But yeah, it's super useful and actually having a few updates real soon, which I probably won't talk about too much, but yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's very cool because I am from Luxembourg.

It's such a teeny tiny country and I'm always like super proud if there's something yeah. Coming out of it and seeing it sprout and grow and yeah, always makes me vote for it. So you said the guys, how many people are on that team that's developing a mid journey like competitor? I think around five six ish. Probably forgetting someone, but I think around like that's around it.

Yeah. That's pretty wild though, that you can create like a competitor in an amazing cutting edge space with 5 to 6 people. I think that's amazing. It's crazy. Yeah, it's yeah, it's absolutely crazy to see how how much I mean, it again, takes so much time to get it going, but to see what it will be able to do is absolutely fascinating and cool to see.

So, yeah, so let's get nerdy with it. I would love to hear about your workflow. So you're working on a graphic design project. You need some assets. What is your technical workflow right now? Right now it's basically like, I don't even write down my ideas anymore. I just go to prompting, right? Yeah, I use my journey mainly for everything visual, but whereas I like with version four or five or more like four, I was very like, okay, this is just like maybe a little bit of a scribble and I'll take it to Photoshop.

And then version five came around and it got tons better. But I still try to maintain it. Like I never accept the raw product and I always take it from my journey to Photoshop or Lightroom mostly both. And now I even edit the tool more, which is magnetic. And yeah, I mean, that's kind of basically the workflows. Like I have a project and whatever it is and what visuals will be needed.

I go into my journey and then add my own little touch to it. Like there is never anything really raw out there and trying to keep it that way. Like I still have sometimes a bit of an issue with raw output generations and just being like this, this nonsense upset me. Like I need to have at least one little thing.

Edit that, that is like, well, I was a collaborator in this like, actually, but maybe that's just me. I don't know. But yeah, and then it depends on, on the work that is needed. But usually after that, taking into InDesign two sigma totally depending on, on that one. But yeah, when you don't have a project with, you know, a brief and you're just wanting to explore and learn these tools for yourself as an artist, maybe improve your workflow or your craft, where do you begin with a project?

Do you have something in mind? Where do you find inspiration to start creating for FY? that's a good question. Like sometimes just life, just going outside and I saw some people doing something like that. But it's funny, I am just going to go into a little journey and do a little coffee shop scene and having that build a story like, I don't know, I never had that tool to visualize my stories.

I don't know. Like storytelling was always kind of love doing it, but they were just in my head and then they also died in there, I guess, because, like there was no outlet for them. And now I can just go ahead and try and tell that story like I that's kind of what I do on Twitter. I there's no real meaning behind anything.

And just like having fun with it, it's like documenting life as it's happening. I love that. That's really beautiful. Yeah. But also, yeah, sometimes inspired by a book or an article I'm reading or it's like a movie I watch. I don't know. It's like, well, I think. And the different. You think this scene was stupid, Like you go on to do it differently.

Yeah that's basically kind of is and yeah let's see life and I mean sometimes there's a spark on Pinterest when I see beautiful picture, I'm like, Well, this is amazing. Like, I'm going to see if I can recreate it with just the words. Like I never use the images in my prom, but trying to achieve that kind of esthetic.

And yeah, I mean that that's how I learn how to use it. Then later in projects where right like otherwise, if I don't train from structures of knowledge, like all the time, I don't know, gets kind of rusty and I don't know where to start versus now, I, I tried so much in my journey that I kind of know where to start when a more specific thing is needed.

How are you enjoying Mid Journey six? You feel like it's changed Any workflows or the way you prompt in any way? I hated it in the beginning. I not hate it, but I was like, my God, I, I had such a good flow and now everything kind of changed because they did change it to a bit more of a natural language.

And also the visuals were very different, like they were way more saturated, a lot more contrast was in it, and my stuff usually was very matte and yeah, a bit more soft. And it was really hard to get back to that point. And I don't know if they did a few updates already and just don't announce it, but now it's getting a bit easier again.

But I also had to tweak my products sometimes a lot, sometimes a little. I saw your comparison on Twitter and a few or X, but a few folks were saying they like the the five version better. It was this like woman, the pink glow around her. I think version five was very cinematic versus version six now is a bit more yeah, a bit more harsh.

Like it's still like it's cool for some visuals, but sometimes I go back to five because I meet that certain esthetic that I kind of establish for myself. And it's just really hard to to get to that point. And it's always easier in Photoshop, for example, to add contrast than to take it away. So that's kind of where I'm like, God, I just need that raw image kind of texture to it.

To then better edit it. Maria I totally understand how they went about it because most people probably don't take it to, I don't know, Photoshop or wherever to edit it. So it's yeah, I feel the same way. I think most of the time when I'm prompting with the journey now, I was using six at first and then I just go to 5.2 now and utilize it because it's what I know and six I like.

Last night I was working on some website mockups and could not get version six to create decent website mockups for version five. It was just every project was like really interesting. So I don't know why that's the case. I don't know if the training dataset was just much smaller with six, but it's interesting that and a the beauty of mid journey like you can always go back to the versions which thank God because there's so many tools out there that just push the updates and I'm like, No, wait.

I finally understood how it works and I got like a good workflow with it and then it completely changes and you can go back and that's like super annoying. So I'm happy that they still have all versions and they're really nice. I think they really balance the like you have a lot of customizable controls in Mid Journey, but not too many.

I've started using some of these tools, especially the ones that will be basically just uses that allow you to unlock stable diffusion just from the cloud. And there are so many parameters to edit and to adjust and change that most of your time is not spent in the creative flow state talking with the tool. So having an approach, seeing like adjusting your creative direction, it's spent adjusting little sliders, you know, with speed, iteration numbers and just like all of these things that are fine, like it's great to have that customization but ultimately kind of get in the way of the creative process.

So I feel like majorities like that perfect balance. Absolutely, 100%. And also people are super annoyed about it having been in this court for that long. But honestly, it's the perfect entry level. Like you can have it anywhere, go like the amount of times I just sit in the subway and then generate some stuff because like I can basically take my work with me now.

Like that's such a cool thing to have. And with a website, sure, it works, but it's never really the same. And this court, it's I know, I understand. Like it's, it's, it's no yeah low maintenance like I'm not getting distracted by it versus on a website I if it's loading I just go to a different website and then I'm shopping and I was doing something else.

But yeah, so Julie, you are a graphic designer which is typically a static non moving design, right? But with these tools you've had the opportunity to add motion to your work. What does that look like kind of moving from being a designer to maybe a motion designer? Do you have motion design experience in your past and what tools do you use in your work to give your products movement?

So I had no animation motion design knowledge at all. Like if anything, I'm very Tumblr. Like I put three images below each other, put some little subtitles on there and that's enough movement for me, right? Like, that's, that's how I tell the story. But with I think the first one was runway that I tried out like beside my little Twitter for image kind of storytelling.

I was now able to animate those images. I generated and like that has never been on my bingo card to ever go into like editing tools for video and I actually even upgraded from a MacBook to like a mac mini because my MacBook was basically burning at that point. And I was like, so eager to work further from like with all the runway outputs and later also Pikka to actually be able to form a little short film or I don't know, just like some short little whatever were they?

I So yeah, like last summer was the first time I opened Premiere Pro and now it's basically it has become one of my weekly tools, which is pretty cool. And it again, like that was kind of reverse. Now I kind of know how to work with motion and not just like the 2D side of it, which is amazing.

And yeah, I don't know, it's just so much fun to see those, those little words that I prompted form into an image and then form the video and just move and tell the story. I don't know. That's just so fascinating to me. And it's really like video even takes it to a whole different level. And at one point we will reach like a major any kind of quality and we will be mind blown.

Yeah, I think that it's going to be here maybe in the next 12 months or so that, you know, photorealistic quality via video. It's really interesting because Shelby and I used to work for a motion design school and it was really cool to be involved in the process of people kind of going from graphic designer, like what your your background is in to becoming a motion designer.

But what was what was really interesting is when you started getting into those tools after Effects cinema 4D, you know, these like tools that motion designers use on a day to day basis, you realize that they're pretty dang technical, and if you want to really unlock them, you have to like start learning coding languages that are like pretty technical and you have to buy a bunch of plug ins, which is it's fine, it's just part of the process.

But it does take a significant amount of time. And so you kind of are limited in your creative expression because of just the fact that it kind of has to be your career to be an after effects artist, but or to be a cinema 4D artist. And so I think it's really cool to think about how what's happening now is we don't have to get relegated to one specific part of the creative pipeline.

If you literally have a vision for some cool 3D animated branding campaign, like you can begin to do that right now. And then within 12 months you 100% will be able to do something that's network quality. It's so cool. Yeah. Mind blowing. Yeah, it's it's so fascinating. I would love to hear from you. Okay. Because one of the things I think I see folks struggle with and I struggle with and products is like the consistency with I so characters I want to hear about.

Like when you're working with a brand, how are you getting their colors into these images? Are you how are you working with their logos? How are you creating that brand consistency using AI tools? Yeah, so I, I always do tell them that we'll see how it goes. Like there's no there's no promise that it will work. But given that I mostly did all that before working with AI, like I know how I get my work around like if the colors are not like perfect matching the esthetic of the brand, I know how to tweak it in Photoshop or wherever it's needed, so that's a bonus.

On having that kind of knowledge next to just using the raw outputs, for example, from my journey. But our character consistency is still very hard, especially in the journey like this. Definitely other tools that have been super like is, you know, a little bit of stable fusion or tools that use stable to fusion. It's doable. However, the quality then again is like maybe not as esthetic as my journey.

So I did try to find a few workarounds in my journey and even the little tutorial about. But yeah, it's, it's far from, it's far from perfect and still very, very limited. And so yeah, I always try to avoid kind of having to go with really like strict character consistency and if that's like not yeah. Will you prompt to the best you can for the esthetic of the image to get close to the brand and then use Magnifica to, to a brezza and then take it into Photoshop and kind of make adjustments with the colors and layer on textures as needed to match the brand esthetic.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's basically like usually if you do have like a brand that's mainly on social media and having that can very strict kind of esthetic working for them, it's usually due to some presets and color corrections, like it's never just that. So yeah, it's basically the same kind of workflow if, if it would be photography or at that point like in which generations.

Yeah, that's great. I, I really want to get very tactical and specific with some of the insights I think you can bring to the table. Julie Because of your background with photo editing, graphic design, all of these things. So we talk about imagery. I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast use imagery every single day.

They're on the subway prompting exactly like what you talked about. And so I would love to get some more journey tips here in a little bit. But specifically, you also talked about using Photoshop for basically everything and then utilizing Lightroom a little bit. So I'm curious if you could be just kind of like a mentor real quick for those who are listening to this podcast.

What are some of the things that you do inside of Photoshop in Lightroom on a regular basis as it relates to editing your images? And then if you know, Photoshop can be overwhelming, there's so many buttons, so many things you can learn, right? What are some of the specific tools or plug ins or filters that you use on most of your projects that you think people should really hone in on and get good at using in order to elevate their AI projects?

So the easiest is probably to start with does really Lightroom and on mobile, I think it's even for free to be able for free. So it's really like an amazing entry point to take your generations and I don't know, just run like a preset over it. Like you can buy them, but you don't have to. There's like a good amount of presets already built in there that help take those raw outputs to the next level.

And then just going in there, change a little bit of the lighting, the contrast and really see how when you change those specific colors, how it changes the image and the whole story like colors have emotions. And sometimes my journey doesn't really capture that specific emotion that you actually want to, Yeah, transmit. And then taking it to Lightroom is like the next step to actually tell that story.

And it's basically the same that I do with Photoshop. It's for me. For me it's a tad easier because I just do like four little cardboards next to each other and then taking the images in there. And then I just go in there with selective color correction and then I see like in the overview how much I have to tweak for each image to make it one coherent story.

But yeah, that's kind of a bit more next level. Lightroom is perfect to, to start with, but yeah taking it really to Photoshop and adding grain, adding yeah, there's like selective color and light contrast. Again, it's, it really makes such a huge difference. And just photoshopping those little artifacts that sometimes my journey just has and those weird little gibberish words that are everywhere.

I just kick them off sometimes because it's so annoying because pictures are so good and then there's like truth in there and we go, Why? Let's. Yeah, that is so good. I love that of having your art board set up with all of your images and then using the individual color correction in that larger context rather than editing them at a time.

I think that's a really wise workflow most people don't think about. Are there any specific Lightroom presets, maybe beyond just the built in ones that you like to use in your products? I do, but I also just like did a lot of them myself that I just saved because I do tend to go like more green and reds kind of contrasty.

So I did a lot of them just myself and have a ton of green because that's what I love doing. They never have enough grain. But yeah, like the buildings are pretty good. Like I use those a lot of times too. There's no super specific ones I use all the time. I always try to adapted to, to image, but yeah, also doing a lot of them.

Is there an AI tool you use to add grain or do you just add grain? It's always Photoshop. Like I have a ton of grain overlays from creative markets that I use all the time and they just give that kind of, Yeah, film effects which are even better than just like adding noise and grain to it because it has like the little imperfections there.

But yeah, I didn't find any A.I. tools that could do it just yet. Like my journey has gotten better with grainy stuff, but not perfect. Yeah, that is interesting. It like it does the color correction, correct? As if it was shot on analog cameras. But it's it doesn't understand like how to properly have like the specs be the right size and in the right spots.

It's always like too plasticky like that's what annoys me the most. Like it's always yeah. To gaps to classic. I need it to be flat. Where do you get your grain? I'm curious. Mostly on creative market. I bought like a ton of those, like an unhealthy amount of just great supply library of grain ones and grain. So much of the same thing with video.

It's like tons of just like films, you know, like looping film grains that I can just drag and drop. I'm afraid actually, he opened a company called film composite and he went in and shot like really high rez grains that people, you know, use on projects. We can link to that really great. We like doing amazing job. Well, So Julie, I'm really curious because you also talked about using Magnifique a bit, especially recently.

You know, it feels like they're like the only thing people are talking about over the last month, which is great, but you know, you're saying, okay, mid journey images tend to be kind of plastic, kind of warped. And then whenever I throw images from a journey into magnifique, they then become hyper sharpened and very kind of hyper real and almost a beyond editorial kind of way.

And I'm curious about where magnifique for you. How does it fit into your workflow? Is it like the last step after you've done everything? Is it right after mid journey? Like, how are you thinking about up razors and are you using it on most of your projects or are you just uprising like from the journey and then going in Photoshop?

I use it religiously at the moment. Like I really take almost all of my journey generations to make this right now and I realize that the promise is like super important for the output. Like I never not have a prompt and I usually go back to like, sometimes my parents don't really make sense in terms of the output.

And then I just go into my journey again and do to describe function and let my journey re describe basically the image I generated with it. Like it's a bit of a chicken and the egg just rolling back again and having that very specific description of the image helps a lot. And really, if you want to have like specific details, for example, the teeth sometimes look a bit weird already and the raw output and then they look just as weird and magnetic.

But if you print like beautiful teeth, then the tool actually knows, okay, actually it's teeth and not just some weird bricks on a face, so that helps a lot. And also tweaking the the settings. Like I tend to go with portraits in the negatives with the creative well slider so yeah and just it takes a while to to really get around and not having it be like yeah as you said like over sharpening and basically doing a different person with it.

I think it's so much Photoshop and like a magazine that you like, that's not the same person in, in light of all the steps you go through to complete your project, do you set parameters for yourself? Like, okay, Julie, we're going to edit this one more time and not obsess over any more and we're going to wrap it up because I think, I don't know, for me I can just obsess over refining something so long that I never actually get it out there.

Like, do you have rules for yourself and your creative process to wrap things up? Yeah, I used to be very, very perfectionist on everything. Like that was never. I accept 80%. And the other trainee, I'll see if I need them now with a I, I tend to embrace it a bit more. I'm just kind of more this is fine.

This is out of my control at this point. It gets the story out. I don't care anymore. But that also depends again on the project. If it's just like for myself, some something, just ideas I want to get out there. Done. I try to not perfectionist over it anymore as much as I used to, but it depends on the day and how much I'm in the mood to really go into the nitty gritty.

Well, Julie, I know that we've been going a while here. I want to begin to wrap things up with a few last questions. So like you were just talking about just a minute ago, you know, I it's only going to get better from here. This is the worst version of air that we're ever going to see. And this beautiful photorealistic renders that like, look like they belong in our art gallery.

So I'm curious, especially for you, because you have such an extensive background in graphic design, advertising, creativity in general. What should creative people do to help them think about their career over the next few years? Because it's obviously things are going to change. What are some of the skills that you think are going to be timeless and really important to just continue to grow in and to progress?

Maybe if you have resources for developing those skills and what skills do you think are very temporary? You know, for example, I don't know, maybe profiting in mid journey, maybe, you know, a few months from now we're just gonna be able to use that natural language and it will be something that we have to spend a lot of time developing.

Yeah, I mean, I guess the last point we've already seen now, right? Like I obsessively built out like a prong structure in like version four and five, and now it's like basically it's like completely from zero, but very much so. Like using natural language now is unnatural, which sounds stupid, but yeah, I mean, I'm not a native English speaker, so for me it's easier to just write in like commas and being very like choppy about it and now having to form actual phrases that make sense is like not always the easiest.

So I think prompt engineering could, could be temporary. I'm not sure. Or maybe like all the text based text to image, text to video could be temporary. Yeah, like, we'll see. I don't know. But you will never regret learning the traditional ways of doing stuff like I now got into the whole video editing tools because of A.I.. And even if I is gone tomorrow, I can still now kind of edit the video if needed.

So that is not AI related. So having that knowledge in how to get from A to B without A.I. necessarily being in there is like super important and will probably never go away. Like it's very niche now to use it with A.I., like traditional with generative stuff, but traditional will never go away. And I don't. Maybe, maybe it will, but I don't think that generative tools will ever stand.

Like just allow maybe, maybe not just me, but at least I don't see it for now. But yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think that generative content by itself is not as interesting, but when people are able to go in and that even if it's a small amount, you you can usually feel it and then it's better. Okay, cool.

Well, I have one last question that I know. We'll kick it over to Shelby, who will finish this out. So I want to end here with maybe five quick tips. Like each step could be like 10 to 15 seconds. That you have learned or that you utilize in your day to day workflows that you think people would find very interesting.

It could be a mid journey, it could be in Photoshop, whatever tool you want. What are five things that like you are just excited about and that you would love to share? Okay, wait, no pressure. So yeah, so the first one in my journey to really go the extra mile, usually like I'm not the biggest fan of using artists and everything in the prom, but if you prompt painters, for example, to generate post photography like photographic looking stuff takes it to a whole new level.

It's always way more creative and has a lot more definite. Instead of using, I don't know, David LaChapelle. Something like actually using photographers for photography stuff is usually less inspiring than using artists from a different medium. That's one very main thing. I do a ton and I think most people don't usually think about it that way because painting is painting, photography is photography, but they can mix really well and create a good kind of mix in there.

I mean, in Photoshop, we kind of always set it always at grain like a hundred of market if you just like search data for a grainy. So I guess there's even more like free stuff out there like people give a ton of resources. I guess there is a lot you can find. Yeah. The first one would be to really never accept a role from a photo.

No, that's like really my golden rule. I, I know it's very biased because I do have that background as a graphic designer and that's just like my natural go, my go to. But yeah, like there's a ton of tools out there like Lightroom on Mobile Vsco what was the other one there was like one very I don't remember.

Layout is a lot of editing tools out there to take the raw outputs to. Yeah, just make it a bit more your own to take it to the next level. And the same with video. I used to really just like edit time videos on, on mobile. I can never touched any video tools on my MacBook until like a few months ago.

That's like a supply in Cape Cod. Those tools are amazing to to learn how to get into all of those areas and make it yeah take it from there, from runway pick. Like there's always cool things, but only having those 4 seconds is kind of not enough to tell a story. And I mean, there's possibilities to to edit basically everything on your phone by now.

So it's doable to get a good entry there. Now with SIFT one that's hard. had to just try it out and really go crazy. Like usually for me the stuff I where I go completely nuts is the best results and even using like emojis or stuff like that. And then my journey gives you like the coolest results.

It's so weird to just put emojis in there, but I don't know, it is like little crystal ball and then the little stories and then it change. Like the beautiful little environ window of Little Alien City or like super whimsical and dreamy things. So I could have prompted if I wanted to. But with those emojis it really takes that you had sparkly little moments.

Yeah, we loved that and I want to try that immediately. That is so fun. I've never used emojis in my props, but I love that. Yeah, it's actually pretty cool. Like it works so well. Well, I think that is going to transition us to our rapid fire questions. So we like to end things with just some quick questions just off the top of your head.

Whatever The first thing that comes to your mind is feel free to answer, okay? Yep. And I have a few here, but we'll get started. And at the end I would love to learn. If there's anything else you'd like to share with our audience or just plug anything that you're working on. Yeah, that'd be great. But okay. Rapid fire questions.

What is your favorite and least favorite fight? my favorite ad at the moment they change a lot. At the moment it's inter again. It's very basic. I know. And my and and still one I really don't like. Is Korea new? I don't know why you really like it but I tried it like I think today animals like it but it's like so weird It's not even comic sans, but ours is like, this looks so weird.

Something just switches. Maybe it's like you're seeing it too much. So, like, I can't anymore. Like, yeah, there was something and you get obsessed with one food and you're like, I can't. Yeah, I overdone it. I have to back away. Maybe you read many scripts. Yeah, maybe. my God. I didn't think about it. That could really. Well, so that's a really funny.

Is there a playlist you go to or what music do you listen to when you're working on a I projects? I have one is like very maybe very fitting to the thing I said before. Very nostalgic. It's very like early 2000 and it's like the weirdest playlist. But I love it. Absolutely. And it always brings me in a good mood.

But other than that, it's probably like Broadway stuff, like Wicked. Having that on in the background, it's all right and the creative juices flowing. Yeah, We went to Wicked last year in London for the first time and it was amazing. So far. It's so good. I can't wait for the movie to come out like end of year. I'm, I'm geeking out bit.

So you're building your top eight on MySpace and they are I tools. Who or what tools are in the top eight for you? Okay, let's see if we can get it together. So first one, definitely my journey, then we have magnetic has to be in there. Let's see, it's the first one. Then we have runway, Piqua stable if you're in.

Has to be in there, even though it's like more of the cousin. Like. Like in for family reasons. I have to put it in there. Like, we don't talk about like, we don't talk every day, but, hey, we have to get along. Has to be there. Yeah. And then Topas, I would say, as for me, they have some AI in there.

It's also very distant family. It's in now. It's like two relatives that just have to be in there for family reasons, sort of piece of it. I think that's the one missing, right? I mean, no, that's a bad firefly. Like, I know. Be Firefly. Okay. Yeah, that probably be more in the front. But hey, there's a love that.

Let's do fun, right? Why was I hearing emo music playing while you were describing your MySpace top eight? Because like Billy telling blasting in the background, her slurs or you also the person, I was like, okay, I'm going to put the emo song. That's cool in the moment, but I'm not going to move. Nick The most popular one.

I'm going to do like the surf, but you know, you like kind of get a cheery just because I'm for anything, I'm cool. Yeah, because I know their music, you know? Yeah. But also very indie stuff that nobody knew. Like that also was like very, very MySpace. Very much. That's a little of it. So but who is the ideal girl brand you would love to partner with?

my God, it's always so hard. I don't know. I always kind of say Starbucks. I would love to just work with them maybe once. But I I'm also kind of terrified that I would regret it. You know, it's like never meet your heroes. Yeah, that's such a good point. Well, you know, like, I want it to just go so well, but it's like work.

So sometimes it is hard and right. But I love this idea of you prompting for, like, these scenes. You see coffee shops of, like, people having coffee or, like, maybe a cute dog. And I could totally see that being like an eventual partnership with them. Yeah, that would be really I would love to do, like, a little commercial mood kind of thing in.

Like, I don't even know if they do that really. Like, they obviously have their little advertising shots, but like a real mood shot for like Salix. That would be cool. That would be really cool. And what is your Starbucks order? a soy vanilla latte. Love. Now, that's all very basic. I feel like I've been into I love cappuccinos, but they're always like way too much milk at Starbucks.

So I've learned to get the like, you know, the kid size you can get like, yeah, I think it's like a short or something. So great. It's the right amount of milk. It's just like this tall. It's like, that's actually a good tip. Yeah, You're welcome. Next time, just like that might be the most helpful if on the whole project, I would say until the end of cycle.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much. It's been so fun. I am excited to just keep in touch with you, to follow your journey and so inspired by you. You're just incredible artist. And you, I like immediately I'm going to go prompt with emojis just to see what I get. And they use my like, what are these big top five emojis on my keyboard?

Let's just see what happens. I excited to see is I'll share with you immediately. So is there anything else you'd like to share or plug with our audience? I don't think so. Just like people need to have fun with prompting. I don't know. Just don't take it too seriously. But know that we're like very, very early on. It's very nice.

We live in a little bubble and it will come and it just like the Internet, it it's here to stay and it's not going away anytime soon. And the sooner you really get behind it and try to understand it because it's hard to really understand it, but already having like one foot in the door is better than not trying it out at all.

And then in five years being completely lost like I see with so many colleagues of mine that I'm just like, I'm not going to push it on you, but if I were you, I would at least somewhat try it out and then see if it's applicable for some stuff. And yeah, I think that shows it. Yeah. And if someone wants to follow you online, where what are the channels they should go to?

So mostly Twitter or X at Julie W Design and also the same on Instagram. And yeah, I think those are the two main social media channels that I post the most about I and what I. So yeah, they're amazing. Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate you being on the podcast will be sure link to everything that Julie talked about below this video and would love to circle back, you know, maybe a year from now and hear how your workflow has changed and how your top eight has changed.

That would be so interesting because one year ago life was different. A lot of just a lot of stuff change, so let's do it.